The Pillory
NEUMUSIC MAGAZINE - BERLINInterview by Wolfgang Fenchel
The Pillory is the perfect mix of electronic, contemporary and progressive music. How did the composer pull off such a feat?
Jasun started composing The Pillory and assembling the Neoteric Orchestra in 1976. Following the premiere live performance in Los Angeles in July of that year, plans were initiated for the studio recording. However, when Jasun was asked by Frank Zappa to join his world-tour as a synthesizer programmer, the orchestra was temporarily disbanded and the album production delayed. After the Zappa tour in mid 1977, Jasun moved to London to record some of the basic tracks and began auditions for the soon-to-be 40-piece orchestra. Extensive rehearsals, recording and post-production continued through 1978 mostly in New York and Los Angeles. That year, the album was released to vast critical acclaim on the All Ears / PBR International label. In 1981 it was re-released on Jasuns own label, Neoteric Music. The Pillory has been performed solo several times by Jasun in the United States and Europe but has only been heard once with a full orchestra- the premiere performance.
W.F.: I am sure you have certain ideas in mind that explain what is happening as the music progresses. Please explain the action in The Pillory.
J.M.: Well, my original concept was this: The Pillory is a major electro-acoustic orchestral work that is an intense and complex composition. The concept is a perpetual one that takes place not necessarily in our past, present or future, nor within our currant perceptions of time, space, reality or consciousness. The music is symmetrically scored to correlate with the metaphysical ideas. It's structured into nine movements in portmanteau form (all movements in one), which corresponds with the overall thematic idea: The metamorphosis of lusion through nine points of an existence- lusion- is a word I coined to express that which is real, the antithesis of an illusion. In The Pillory lusion can be a person, thing, time, place, thought. The nine movements are pre, birth (death), realization, confinement, adaptation, verge, rebellion, judgment and death (birth). But now looking back on that explanation, it is sure nebulous even pretentious. Usually people who listen to The Pillory are both positively and negatively affected but that was my intent. When I first performed it with an orchestra, some of the listeners left the hall in tears and others left elated, with goose pimples. No one seems to remain the same after hearing this music!
W.F.: Your elegiac Mellotron improvisations belong to the best things someone ever did with this instrument. Do you have a special connection to this instrument, or is it just by chance that you chose it?
J.M.: Ever since the early King Crimson days, I have loved the Mellotron, but it was not until 1976 that I bought mine. I think I was in England in 1969 at the Isle of Wight festival that I first heard and saw one played live, by either Crimson or Moody Blues, I can't quite recall. Although The Pillory uses synthesizers and orchestra, it could not have been realized without a Mellotron. The design and software are quite primitive, but the sounds can be amazing.
W.F.: You mention Frank Zappa on the sleeve notes. What influence did he have on the Pillory project?
J.M.: Most of The Pillory was written before I met and toured with Zappa and so he really did not have much of an influence. I remember he listened to a cassette of a rough mix when he and I were flying back to LA from Chicago and he had a couple of suggestions. He said he really dug it. Frank and I got along really well and I enjoyed working with him but musically I think we're in quite different worlds. We used to debate who was better Edgard Varese or Charles Ives. I love Ives Robert Browning Overture. Frank loves Varese. Zappa is perhaps one of the greatest composers and guitarists around. I definitely learned a few guitar tricks from him. I gave thanks to Zappa on the album because working with him gave me the time and money to record the album. I also became good friends with Eddie Jobson (U.K., Roxy Music, Jethro Tull, Curved Air) and Ruth Underwood (Zappa) while working with Frank, and as you know they play on The Pillory album. That was a great experience.
W.F.: The liner notes (on the first release) also mention Eno, Robert Fripp, Peter Gabriel and Dagmar Krause.
J.M.: Well, the mention of those people, except Dagmar (Henry Cow / Slapp Happy), was just some record company hype I was not very happy about. I have only met and spoken with Peter Gabriel three or so times, in Toronto, Santa Barbara and in Los Angeles. Fripp and I have known each other since 1977. Quite a while ago, we discussed collaborating on something and met in London to discuss, but we never got around to anything, And Eno and I have only spoken by phone once when also when I was in London. So even though I admire all of their music, there was no real connection or need to mention them. Dagmar, on the other hand, was originally going to sing on the album. I love her voice. We got together in London and listened to some of The Pillory tapes and discussed the project. But our schedules were so busy we could not coordinate a recording time. I finally had to leave for L.A. and thus she is not on the record.
W.F.: The Pillory has a similar dynamic force as Stravinskys. Le Sacre du Printemps. Is this type of music only one extreme of your musical abilities, or is it the kind of music you mostly do?
J.M.: I enjoy Sacre du Printemps very much. My favorite works in that field are probably Charles Ives Robert Browning overture and Bela Bartoks The Miraculous Mandarin. My listening and composing tastes are quite diverse. I usually like or appreciate any type of music that attempts to bend our normal aesthetics. I may listen to some electronic, contemporary, conservative classical or meditative music on one day and then maybe some hard-core punk, pop, jazz, experimental the next day. Oddly enough, my earliest musical roots were late 60s groups like Blue Cheer, Jimi Hendrix, Quicksilver Messenger Service. Then I went to Europe in 1969 and got into Soft Machine, Van Der Graaf Generator, Henry Cow, Magma and Crimson. But at the same time I began listening to Stockhausen, Varese, Cage, Xenakis, Schoenburg, Terri Riley and Penderecki.
W.F.: The Pillory is more than just electronic music, though It's the perfect mixture of electronic, contemporary and progressive elements. Does not pure electronic music satisfy you and what do you think about it?
J.M.: Thanks, I am glad to hear you say that about The Pillory because that was exactly my goal when writing it. I tried to avoid the coldness of strict electronic music, the self-indulgent misuse, or should I perhaps say overuse of technical proficiency in progressive rock, and a sterile and usually awful production in classical and contemporary classical. Pure electronic and progressive music has a reputation of being cold, calculated and sterile, and unfortunately that is generally true. I quickly became bored with simple sequencer runs with flashy little solo doodling on top, or linear bleeps and pops tinkering about. Most composers and musicians seem to miss most of the physical parameters available to them. Dynamics, for example, are so powerful, yet I rarely hear them!
W.F.: Jean Dubuffet, considered the greatest French modern artist for his Art-Brut style, made the cover drawing for The Pillory. If I look at the cover it seems like it was more, sorry for the word, a publicity gag than a real association with the music. What do you think today of your collaboration with Dubuffet?
J.M.: I can see how you might think the cover does not really fit the music since, well, The Pillory seems quite complex whilst the Dubuffet drawing appears to be so simple. But actually, I think in a way the drawing does symbolize the meaning of the music. It appears simple but is more complex than it seems... just like The Pillory. When I was an art student I became excited with Dubuffets concepts and philosophy: he explore alternative aesthetics - what is considered ugly is beautiful and what is beautiful is ugly. Years later I learned he had recorded some music way back in 1961. I was in New York City in 1977, and a friend played me a tape of those recordings. It is some of the most radical music I have ever heard. He just overdubs himself sort of bashing things and instruments around. The sounds are very rough but beautiful. Anyway, to make a long story short, I contacted Jean in Paris, we corresponded for a while, I sent him The Pillory and he sent me more of his music and artwork. He said he listened to the music and found it to be an impassioned realization and he came up with that image. Receiving that drawing was one of the most exciting moments of my life. I had always wanted to own an original Dubuffet and now I had something he had created just for me! Dubuffet has had an enormous impact on my ideas and thus my music. Originally my friend Paul Whitehead (who performs on The Pillory) and I discussed having him paint The Pillorys cover. Paul has painted dozens of album covers I really liked including Van Der Graaf Generator and Genesis. But when Dubuffet, who is now 80 years old, said he wanted to collaborate with me on the artwork we, of course, used the Dubuffet!
W.F.: You seem to be a very busy musician. What's your range of productivity before and since The Pillory?
J.M.: I've always been into music. I remember as a child, I would pick up pencils and play them to my older sisters Chubby Checker records. Way back then I knew I had a natural feel for it. I have never had any formal musical training. In many ways I think that was beneficial since I didn't have all of the brainwashed ideas of what music should or should not be. I learned by intuition and simply by playing as many instruments as I could get my hands on. I signed my first recording contract when I was 15, so I have been at it for a long time. I earned my university degree in sculpture before I went pro and I paid my way through college by being a roadie. I would fly all over the United States for a few days and concerts and then grab a plane back to L.A. so I would not miss any classes. Since The Pillory I have been mostly doing art and music.
W.F.: And what are you doing at the moment?
J.M.: My main concern is pushing the new release of The Pillory. In 1978 it never had a proper release and I'd like as many people as possible to hear it. I am the type of person that needs 25 hours in a day to work on all the projects that I have going. I live for music. Hopefully, everyone will be hearing more music from Jasun Martz.
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